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The House of JUSTiSO - A Clash of Clans Community
Prep Thread Developement - *MOVED FROM STAFF AREA FOR PUBLIC COMMENT* - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: Prep Thread Developement - *MOVED FROM STAFF AREA FOR PUBLIC COMMENT* (/showthread.php?tid=689)

Pages: 1 2


Prep Thread Developement - *MOVED FROM STAFF AREA FOR PUBLIC COMMENT* - mikeh - 04-17-2015

Hey Guys

Firstly thanks for helping with troop donations, It can be expensive so the bigger the donator team the better for everyone.

The thread will be a little ugly, I need to work out a good layout, kind of limited due to formatting limitations on here, I may end up doing a screen shot of a spread sheet or something

The troops you need to cook will be posted below.

Rules

1. Please have your donations complete 2 hours before battle starts (this gives 22 hours to cook)
2. Fill from the bottom of map. (When your ready to donate just fill from bottom and fill any gaps if there is any)
3. Please post complete in this thread when you have donated your troops.

Troops Required For Each Castle

30 Spaces 
  • Valk x 2
  • Wiz x 2
  • Minion x 2
  • Archer x 2
25 Spaces
  • Valk x 2
  • Wiz x 1
  • Minion x 2
  • Archer x1
20 Spaces
  • Valk x 1
  • Wiz x 2
  • Minion  x 2
  • Arch x 4
15 Spaces
  • Valk x 1
  • Minion x 2
  • Archer x 3
10 Spaces
  • Valk x 1
  • Minion x 1
Who Cooks What


Zooks               - 14 x Archer, 4 x Wiz
Silent                - 14 x Archer, 4 x Wiz, 42 x Minion, 20 x Valk
TuckersWarlord - 14 x Archer, 4 x Wiz
Tuckers Hero's   - 14 x Archers, 4 x wiz 
Mike                  - 14 Archers, 4 x Wiz, 19 Valk
Andrew              - 4 x Wiz
Moonever          - 14 x Archer, 3 x Wiz
Ax                      - 14 x Archer, 3 x Wiz, 42 Minion, 19 Valk
Cooper               - 14 x Archer, 3 x Wiz


RE: Test for new Prep Thread - Just messing around with layout - Zooks - 04-18-2015

I like this...  I did find however that the process to actually apply troops a little cumbersome..

  1. check castle size..
  2. look at what goes in each castle size...
  3. check if I am assigned the troop that goes in that castle...
  4. check to see if someone else already added that troop...
  5. oops..  someone put something wrong in here and now mine wont fit...
  6. move to the next....
  7. hey wait?  who is going to tell that player to empty and if they don't, then what goes in there?  should I just put something in anyway?
  8. ....etc..
I feel that there is a lot of room for error especially when there's so many involved.. 

I was assigned 12 arch and 4 wiz this war...  I could only add 2 arch properly.  And there is still A LOT of spaces to fill.
I also noticed that someone went thru and dumped a bunch of lv6 arch in many of the castles and completely buggered the entire system..  Likewise, one player announced in chat "hey everyone, no time to look at the donation thread so I just gave a bunch of wiz! GoodDAY"

I explained in chat that if we are just dumping troops in with out looking at the assignments it completely defeats the purpose.  Players will have to treat the fill assignments with the same discipline as they treat attack assignments..  DO PRECISLY WHATS REQUIRED.. nothing more, nothing less.

As I noted on the PREP thread, if we DO allow players to add more then their required amount on a regular basis, it will likely cause other donors to leave it to others.  That will lead us back to 3 or 4 players filling all donations EVERY war -- no good if one of those regulars happens to be out one day.  I'm wondering if perhaps we rotate Active Donors and  assign the minimum number needed each war (maybe +1 to be safe) and then one or two ALTERNATES that check and fill gaps as needed in the last two hours.   I realize of course that because of troop limitations that some players (Valk Cookers) would have "Prep Duty" every other war while others (Arch Holders) might only be on duty every 5th war! 

And the ish goes on..  lol  some times less is more I guess.  We don't want to make it TOO confusing but it is without a doubt a very important task to focus on.  We will need a few wars to work out the kinks....


Thinking forward, Id like to also keep a global perspective in mind as we further develop the process..  The next steps would be evolving this into a utility that ANY clan can use.  The donations calc is looking great and I envision that to be an "advanced" interface for such.  Working backwards, the "Basic" interface could allow users to pick predetermined troop compositions from a quick list - [WIZ/ARCH], [DRAG/ARCH], [VALK/MIN/ARCH] etc.  We can even coin cute defensive Acros like exist for offensive coomps Wink.   Leaders should have the ability to quickly change the castle comps considering both "opted in" players (whats available) and strategic decisions based on assessment of the opponent or the base layout for which the  castles are being applied. 

Anyway..  that's just food for thought Wink  -- no REAL expectations so please don't feel any pressure to commit anymore time/effort than usual.


RE: Test for new Prep Thread - Just messing around with layout - _SilentScreams_ - 04-19-2015

I actually dont like this way of donating. Making everyhting even makes it kind of awkward. If it was more simple where you'd just have to look up who to fill. and what to fill with. Something like that would make a bit more sense. Ill give you an example

1. (Donating Member) (War # to donate) (War Troops to donate) (Castle size)
     Silentscreams - (1-5) - 2 Valks, 2 wiz, 2 minion, 5 arch - x4 30 CC Slots x1 25 CC Slot 

Something like this. Would be a lot more sense. You are told exactly who to donate to (By number) and then you dont need to be confused on where to put things or what to do. Itll also make sure people dont donate random things to random spots OR make mistakes. Youll know 100% that you have to donate to these exact people. 

Ofcourse my example isnt the best as it may be confusing. But think of soemthing like this. The current way may keep things more even in price. but tbh... I dont care if I spend more than others... Im suppose to have more loot as I am higher level


Just a thought. Let me know what ya think


RE: Test for new Prep Thread - Just messing around with layout - mikeh - 04-19-2015

I agree, it's deffo a rough system, the idea as usual was to get the ball rolling as it sparks idea's better than just talking about it.

I did like the spread of the cost, the idea of gaining loot from war is nice. but as you both say the place too put troops is scatty and a bit of a mess

Silent your method makes much more sense to get round the placement issue but working stuff out fairly evenly would be tough I think (the current way is automatic) Maybe i could look into working this system out automatically but I'll have to have a good think of how to do it.

The rotation system sounds good, If we didn't do it exactly even in each war (like we tried in last war)  we could make it fair by doing it silents way where silent does 1-5 1st war but then I do 1 -5 then tucks and so on. same rotation for the other sections too, so you would have some expensive wars and some cheap wars.

The calc being global is the easy bit once it is right. All they would have to do is put there clan members and troop lvl's on the profiles tab and the sheet will fit their clan. we just need to get the calc itself right first. Once we have a system I can alter it to suit. 

Zooks you mentioned about using access instead, is that something you can easily port onto a web page? I think when I alter stuff for the calc I want to do it in a way we ccan easily get it on the web but im not 100% sure how, do you know off the top of our head? I can look into it but thought I would check first.

Anyways as always good progress going on, thanks for your input guys, appreciate it Smile

Mike


RE: Test for new Prep Thread - Just messing around with layout - Zooks - 04-20-2015

So, I like silent's thinking in terms of simplification, but isn't part of the problem that it often takes more than one party to fill each castle?  I guess now we can apply 6 units each.  So to get around this we would have to work the idea of "total units" as well as total spaces, into the calculator.  In other words, the max units per castle would have to equal 6 for us, but with the global prespective in mind, this might be a selectable item on the calculator - ex. MAX UNITS: [5, 6, 7, Unlimited].

Another suggestion, is to assign "Troop based" duties to one or more players - how it has been I guess only more organized.  To ensure the costs are fairly distributed, we can assign a smaller ranges of bases (coverage range) for donors who have been assigned the more expensive troops.

SO Systematically speaking....

THE PROCESS:
1.) Create Donor pairs from global donor list (NOTE: if rotating, we may only use a "portion" of our Global List each war).
2.) Assign each Pair 1 or more Troop type. VALKS, ARCH/WIZ, MINIONS, etc.
3.) Depending on the cost, assign the pair a base range to fill. 

NOTE: each pair should have capacity to fill both troop types if two types are given in that pairs assignment.  The idea of the "PAIRS" is not so much to split the duty between them, but more so to act as a backup should one of the players be out or slacking.  I would suspect that which ever player in the pair gets to work first will cover most if not ALL of the pairs load - after the fill the player signs off by posting "complete" and that player will ultimately receive credit for it - consideration at least.  The second party simply would simply act to verify and to fills gaps if need be (the 6th or 7th arch in each perhaps that the first could not cover). 

PREP ASSIGNMENT FORMAT:
Donor(s) - TroopType: (BaseRange)

EXAMPLE:
Zooks/Silent - Archers: (ALL), Wiz: (1-10)
Tucker/Mike - Valks: (1-20)
Alex/Evo - Valks: (21-45)
Knock/Drew - Wiz: (11-45)


Since I have "cost" built into the Troop Info sheets we use for the Troop Registry, The calc should be able to easily apply a cost to each composition and "donor pair" and this cost might even be recorded to a player donation history sheet - easily created and self maintained if we create a simple "confirmation form" that players fill out once they finish filling.  Tracking this would help assist the ultimate goal of "Even cost distribution" on a per war or seasonal basis.  

Just to be clear, I wouldn't expect mike (or anyone working on the project) to "Undo" any of the great work/logic that's built into the calc thus far.  So we might consider allowing the calc user the option to select between these different distribution types we are experimenting with.  The original method or [Even Distro], Silents idea [Base Range],  or [By TroopType], or the method suggested above which is a [Hybrid] approach to the last two.

Regarding the Dbase solution (ie ACCESS) over spreadsheet mike, I think using MySQL is the best final solution.  mySQL is the open source database solution that most web providers bundle into their hosting packages for free.  The Language used (Microsoft's Transact SQL) is very similar to the formulas and formatting you are familiar with in your tinkering with Excel and Access.  I can provide some video TUTs on mySQL to see what you think.

-Z


RE: Test for new Prep Thread - Just messing around with layout - tuckerswarlords - 04-20-2015

I think that all members should put in a request on war castles and troops should be filled as requested. For example alex asks for 4 wiz rest archers. If tat what he want s then thats what he gets. Somif all members put on there request what they want as long as it loooks a good mixture then that would make the donation process smoother. Simply leaving leaders to fill or I need troops is not good enough.
thats my 5 penny worth.


RE: Prep Thread Developement - *MOVED FROM STAFF AREA FOR PUBLIC COMMENT* - Zooks - 04-20-2015

(04-20-2015, 06:04 PM)tuckerswarlords Wrote:  I think that all members should put in a request on war castles and troops should be filled as requested. For example alex asks for 4 wiz rest archers. If tat what he want s then thats what he gets. Somif all members put on there request what they want as long as it loooks a good mixture then that would make the donation process smoother. Simply leaving leaders to fill or I need troops is not good enough.
thats my 5 penny worth.

I get this, and I I do feel several senior player DO have the ability to make intelligent decisions regarding what works well for their base.  But at the end of the day, I feel it should be a standard that WE predetermine. If we allow one player the ability to choose, then we publicly belittle those who we DONT allow to choose.  Ultimately we should decide the best mix for the TEAMS benefit.  As we move forward, we are finding that a bases defense is becoming more and more important in terms of successful war outcomes and we cant sacrifice WAR and the best interest of the team because someone was up too late watching YouTube and now wants to try "Wallbreakers" in their war castle. Wink

That said however, whether players choose or "Staff" chooses, I think the challenge that is more important to focus on is "even distribution", not so much composition.  I would like Composition to ultimately be a dynamic feature of course and that should again depend on several different factors which could IN FACT include "Player Preference".

-Z


RE: Prep Thread Developement - *MOVED FROM STAFF AREA FOR PUBLIC COMMENT* - mikeh - 04-28-2015

So following silents thoughts and also tucks of people requesting what they want. Is it best to set in groups 

1 on 30 spaces
3 on 25 spaces
3 on 20 spaces
2 on 15 spaces
2 on 10 spaces

That gives flexibility on cost as we can rotate but it also gives the option of us giving set troops or what people request?

That way we wouldn't even need a calculator to work anything out apart from having a schedule for the rotation.

Just a thought, sure there are some better ideas out there. 


RE: Prep Thread Developement - *MOVED FROM STAFF AREA FOR PUBLIC COMMENT* - mikeh - 04-28-2015

not sure if my above post makes sense, i meant this

For example

Silent fills all the 30 Space Castles
Mike, Zooks, Tuck fill all 25 space
Andrew, cooper, alan fill all 20 spaces
Ax and evo on all 15 spaces
chris and deathblooms on 10 spaces

Something like that.


RE: Prep Thread Developement - *MOVED FROM STAFF AREA FOR PUBLIC COMMENT* - mikeh - 05-05-2015

How does this look, It's fairly even on donations and people are split up into groups as requested. I like it, think it is straight forward.

Only issue is it is not automated at all, but once we have have a system I can try an automate it.

Let me know what you think???

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